Trustwatch 2024 verdict on The Battle for Number 10

On the evening of Wednesday 12th June, Sky hosted The Battle for Number 10, broadcast live from Grimsby. The programme saw Keir Starmer and Rishi Sunak each interviewed separately for 20 minutes by Sky’s Political Editor Beth Rigby, before responding to audience questions for a further 25 minutes.

We engaged with five members of our Trustwatch panel via WhatsApp, getting live reactions to the programme, relating to the theme of trust. Immediately afterwards, we held a focus group with the same five panellists, where they shared their reactions to what they heard. What follows is verbatim quotes from WhatsApp messages, and key takeaways and quotes from the focus group.

This short write-up covers our panel’s response to the arguments put forward by both leaders, their behaviour and demeanour, as well as reflections on the conduct of the interviewer and the event format itself, all centred around the central theme of trust.

WHATSAPP MESSAGES (VERBATIM)

On Starmer being grilled by Beth Rigby in the opening exchange on changing his mind (on Corbyn, second EU referendum etc.) and whether voters can trust him

[Beth Rigby questioned Starmer about trust and changing his mind. We asked about whether they trusted Starmer had changed his mind and whether it was fair that he had done so]

Some participants feel Starmer has changed his mind too often to be believed

2019 Conservative voter, intending to vote Conservative 

• “He came across as dishonest and it was like he wanted Corbyn thrown under the bus. He has the right to change his mind but be honest about it, when pressed by Beth she said be honest and he kept on digressing . He seems to change his mind a bit too often”

2019 Conservative voter, intending to vote Labour

• “No, I don’t trust him. He should have been stuck to what he believed was right at the time”
• “Towards the end of his questions, at least he showed honesty by saying he is not making empty promises by bringing the Child benefit back!”

2019 SNP voter, intending to vote SNP

• “To be honest no i don’t think his flip flopping has helped at all, I can’t understand the claim to be supporting working people when he expelled people from the party for backing strike action, comes across is disingenuous”

Some participants felt it was fair for Stamer to change his mind, given how circumstances have changed

2019 SNP voter, intending to vote SNP

• “My personal opinion is that perhaps we arent sure the behind the scenes reasons for why / how MPs show backing – I think he seems to have simply changed his strategy now that hes leading – which I cant hold against him. Living in the now I suppose”

Non-voter

• “It’s difficult because you are obligated to tow the party line and be loyal to the leadership, unless you launch a direct leadership challenge. And you need to pick the correct time to do this. I don’t begrudge him this. His evasive answer to the question was pretty terrible, even when pushed to answer it repeatedly”
• “Re: second EU referendum, perhaps he’s decided it’s time to move on with things. It’s fair that he might have wanted a referendum in 2017 or 2018 but that it’s unrealistic to want one now”

One participant noted that Starmer looked much more comfortable in general in this programme

2019 SNP voter, intending to vote SNP

• “Ok Kier has definitely had a word with himself after the last ‘battle’. He looks like a Leader. He looks confident and calm in this setting. Much more at ease”
• “He seems very comfy on this stage”

On Sunak navigating a “catalogue of broken promises”, Sunak referring to two “once in a century shocks” but emphasised that “we have turned a corner”

[We asked about the above, and asked around promises, trust, and a compelling vision for the future]

Some participants felt Sunak did well, but that he needed to deliver more for the country to win back trust 

2019 Conservative voter, intending to vote Conservative 

• “I think Rishi has come across a lot more honest and factual. I definitely feel he was able to present a better vision for the future given more time as he has been in the job for around 18 months .”
• “He did support the nhs and especially when the guy in the audience questioned him and he came back firing on what the tories have done for the nhs . It’s the migration subject that I felt he faltered on”
• “This debate was interesting and I just felt Rishi came across as more trusting. Clear concise answers and I believe Rishi won this round .”

2019 Conservative voter, intending to vote Labour

• “I see sunak in a same as before! He is the one  got us through a difficult times of post COVID,post Boris and post Liz Truss! However he should be doing more for the country to stay in power. He seems under a lot of pressure when he answers the questions. I think he can rebuild the trust .But I don’t want to see him as our next prime minister”
• “He is playing the same old gimmick “vote for conservative”!”

2019 SNP voter, intending to vote SNP

• “Trust isn’t earned with a sound bite, his actions since being PM are and particularly in the last week show he really isn’t interested. I feel like he’s biding his time knowing he is going to g to lose”

Reflections on the event format and comparison with previous ITV debate

All participants were much more positive about the format, highlighting Beth Rigby’s scrutiny

2019 SNP voter, intending to vote SNP

Please note how the initial response was negative towards a confrontational interviewing style, once they felt that Beth Rigby was also giving Sunak a hard time

• “This presenter is coming across as leading” [during Starmer interview]
• “Not a fan of her. She doesnt feel impartial” [during Starmer interview]
• “Ok im warming to her now. Shes being equally spiky to them both 😂😂” [during Sunak interview]
• “This format helped with trust”
• “The first debate fuelled shouting and neither really had a chance to be in the spotlight”

2019 SNP voter, intending to vote SNP

• “I think the format was better than the first one and Beth did well she was the highlight for me”

2019 Conservative voter, intending to vote Conservative 

• “Tonight’s programme definitely was effective in my opinion”

Non-voter

• “I saw the first debate. I think hosting them separately is a much better way of doing it. I think you definitely need longer per question and maybe fewer questions. I much prefer long form conversations like Joe Rogan had with Bernie Sanders or with Andrew Yang. It would be good to know more about the person behind the politics and why they believe what they believe

2019 Conservative voter, intending to vote Labour

• “This doesn’t not help me to judge each politician and definitely does not help  me to decide which one to trust.!”
• “All I just couldn’t help noticing was that Starmer looked more confident than the last debate and  Sunak looked more nervous than the last time. You can tell he looks under a lot of pressure. The taxes issue is unclear clearly”

FOCUS GROUP INSIGHTS (NOT VERBATIM UNLESS IN SPEECH MARKS)

On the focus groups, one thing that stood out was a disagreement on the sincerity of Sunak’s apology and whether it was conducive to building trust.. While one panellist felt Sunak came across sincere and felt it was refreshing as it was something you don’t often see in politicians, another felt that politician’s apologies were commonplace and frequently rehearsed by PR teams. Another panellist was frustrated by what they saw as excessive coverage of the D-Day event, noting that there were more significant issues facing the country.

Overall, panellists were more positive about this debate and made positive remarks about the programme in terms of its pacing, format, interviewing style, and audience participation.

On scrutiny of Starmer changing his mind

2019 Conservative voter, intending to vote Conservative 

• He changes his mind way too often
• Would have been better to be up-front and honest, rather than dodging the questions he was given

2019 Conservative voter, intending to vote Labour

• It’s not really about changing his mind, it’s more that he isn’t straight about mistakes that have been made
• Felt he avoided a clear answer

On Sunak and D-Day apology

2019 Conservative voter, intending to vote Conservative

• “I think the fact that he came across as sincere and honest and he just put his hands up – he made a mistake – and, you know, that was refreshing to see someone to say they made a mistake. You don’t really hear politicians actually say that”

2019 SNP voter, intending to vote SNP

• “I don’t know I feel like we hear them say ‘sorry’ all the time to be honest ‘cause they know that their PR team will have written their apology for them and that’s not any change, that’s just facts. It personally didn’t impact me”

Non-voter

• “I think that sure it was a bad… it looked bad it was bad on the world stage, it wasn’t, you know it wasn’t great but there’s so many more things that are going wrong with the country that, you know, that’s, it doesn’t really, it shouldn’t… This is the thing that’s annoying about politics is someone makes a mistake like that and (…) they pounce on him like ‘ah, he made a mistake and now he looks bad and we’re going to get as much mileage out of this as we can’, whereas (…) it’s not that important to me (…) he did something wrong, it was wrong (…) he’s apologised and we need to move on from it kind of thing”
• It looked bad but there are so many more things going wrong with the country. The frustrating thing about politics is that people jump on him for that mistake but it’s not that important to – he’s apologised and we should move on.

On whether trust levels have changed in light of the debate

2019 SNP voter, intending to vote SNP

• Felt like they knew what they were going to say so didn’t do much for trust

2019 Conservative voter, intending to vote Labour

• Still undecided on who they should trust/believe

Non-voter

• So disillusioned with the process that it would take a lot to win trust

2019 Conservative voter, intending to vote Conservative 

• Wouldn’t say that I trust politicians but Rishi appeared more factual in what he was saying

On other trust-defining moments in the discussion and the behaviour of leaders

Non-voter

• “We know what they’re going to say if you ask ‘what you gonna do’, they say ‘I’m not gonna do this’. They’ve got their script. We know the parameters they’ll answer in But if you ask them something abot them as a human being, that’s much more revealing. Not that we’ll ask them ‘what’s your favourite film and why?’, but if a question like that was asked and they could give an answer to that, I’d find out more about the person than ‘you said this about this person last month’”

2019 SNP voter, intending to vote SNP

• “When I’ve watched them in the House of Commons and they’re all having a go at each other and it’s their safe place, they love a big debate against each other, and they seem comfy. In both debate, they seem nervous. Keir when he’s told he seems robotic. For a lawyer, he’s a terrible poker player, his face gives it away, he seemed so upset. Rishi when he was asked about the boats and if he’s going to deliver what he’s promises, he gulped so hard, and you could see him sweating… I thought I would see them stronger”

On Beth Rigby and interviewing style/approach

2019 Conservative voter, intending to vote Conservative 

• “I thought she was fair” … focused them on getting them to answer the questions

2019 SNP voter, intending to vote SNP

• Initially felt that she was maybe not unbiased with Keir but then saw she did the same with Sunak

Non-voter

• It was good in that she was “ruthless”

2019 Conservative voter, intending to vote Labour

• Kept pressing Starmer on the Corbyn-relating issue, which Starmer dodged but she pressed him in a calm and collected way, without being aggressive

On allowing audience members to follow-up

2019 Conservative voter, intending to vote Labour

• On audience having debate, I thought there were a good set of questions but we knew the issues that would be coming up, e.g. cost of living. So all of those questions they knew would be covered

2019 SNP voter, intending to vote SNP

• “I’m really interested in the facts. I need to know the reasoning and plans and we got enough of that in the first segment. But then it felt more personable when there were other people, and it was a real mixed audience. I know they wouldn’t pre-checked the questions, but it didn’t feel as premeditated as the first debate where you could tell they’ve really screened the question. That one guy, the junior doctor, got a lot of air time, which is interesting.”